KATIE BROWN - 14 MAY 2021

“I am not the candle you think that I am. The light that you see is coming from you, man”.

For someone who struggles with the idea of being frontman and lead singer, LA-based New Zealand artist And That, aka Scott Cleary (previously of New Zealand act Kingston), sure knows how to string together a tune. Following on from 2019’s EP This, his breezy alt-indie debut LP I Am the Mirror, out today, is a solid statement from an artist who comes across as being completely comfortable in his own skin and also completely capable of making you feel pretty darned comfortable in yours too (whip out that mirror now why don’cha).

Accompanied by three delightfully quirky music videos made in collaboration with Si Moore of Bayly and Moore, singles “I Am the Mirror”, “At Capacity” and “Sailing Again”, drip-fed over the past month and a half, act as the perfect amuse-bouche for a satiating and straightforward album that is uplifting and easy on the ears.

Produced by Zac Farro (Paramore, Halfnoise, Becca Mancari), the guitar-driven and laid-back I Am the Mirror is proof that the best things in life are often the simplest. Whether via the slow and sleepy groove of “Able”, resplendent in layers of gentle guitars and harmonies and conjuring imagery of firefly-lit balmy summer evenings, or the charming lo-fi lullaby “Sleep Baby Sleep”, the songs all come together to form a rich and feel-good tapestry that acts as an ode to the beauty of everyday life and the relationships and happenings within it. An expert balance of acoustic and electric guitars along with warm, natural drums provide a solid foundation for the songs to really shine, and some beautifully heavenly moments emerge throughout, where layered harmonies tucked behind shimmering guitars provide a delicate sense of vulnerability and sincerity.

Romance is always a powerful force in songwriting, and it was Scott’s wife joking that he’d never written a song about her that instigated the creation of his first EP This. Unsurprisingly, this same motif follows through into I Am the Mirror: many of the songs, such as “For You” and “Doesn’t Matter”, are moving examples of the devotion between the pair, as well as touching on a deep love for family. But romance aside, it’s not just relationships that Scott shines a light on - “Sailing Again” addresses issues with drinking and needing to ‘bring the sails in’, and the contemplative “Another” finds Scott musing, “What if everything exploded, dust to dust, I just eroded? Well it could happen to me”. But beneath these lyrics there’s a sense of unshakeable stability: branches may bend and break with life’s storms, but those roots go deep.

“Count Your Blessings (12345)” provides the perfect outro to a pearler of an album. It’s upbeat and it holds the sense of an artist for whom the dust has settled in life: he knows where’s he’s come from and where he’s going, he’s ready to face what needs to be faced, and he’s here to stay. As he sings, “Sun on my face, wind at my back, I’m coming home”.

We see you, man.

Reader, we defy you to not feel just a little better about your life and a little more appreciative of your loved ones after giving I Am the Mirror a spin. Go on, then.

Stream I Am the Mirror on Spotify below, and find And That on Instagram | Facebook | Youtube | Apple | Spotify

Interview below.

KATIE: ‘AND THAT’ IS A FASCINATING NAME FOR YOUR ACT: WHAT INSPIRED IT?

And That: It’s based off the slang term that Kiwis throw on the end of sentences. A way to say all the things that accompany something, without having to say them. Like, if some asks what you've been up to - You could say "Oh, you know, work and that." Meaning, you've been working and all the things that go along with work. My producer Zac Farro and I used to joke around about it and it just made sense to name the project after it.

ALONGSIDE PLAYING FOR OTHER ACTS, YOU WERE PREVIOUSLY PART OF NEW ZEALAND BAND KINGSTON BEFORE YOU ALL WENT YOUR SEPARATE WAYS. HOW DID YOUR MUSICAL HISTORY AND BACKGROUND INFLUENCE YOUR MUSIC-MAKING NOW?

Kingston was my introduction to songwriting. I learnt a lot in those years and learnt to trust my instincts. That’s still what I rely on today, are those instincts. I’m not trying to write power-pop ballads, but I’m trying to channel what comes naturally and what sounds/feels right.

WHEN DID YOU FIRST START TO CONSIDER WRITING YOUR OWN WORK, AND BECOMING A SOLO ARTIST? WHAT DID IT FEEL LIKE TO MAKE THAT MOVE – WAS IT A CHALLENGING SHIFT, OR MORE OF A NATURAL PROGRESSION?

It just happened. I was meeting up with Zac Farro to write and he asked me to send him though any ideas I had. I sent a few songs I’d been working on for nothing in particular and he was just like “These are great, I’ll produce it and it can be your thing!” - And That was born. The EP was my introduction to releasing my own music and being a frontman after years in bands and co-writing. I embraced the opportunity to create music that explored what I loved about songwriting on my own terms. The biggest challenge was being ok with being the face of something. Being a “frontman” and lead singer is still something I struggle with. Hopefully one day soon it’ll start feeling natural.

YOU RELOCATED FROM NEW ZEALAND TO LA A FEW YEARS BACK – WHAT DID THAT DO FOR YOU BOTH MUSICALLY AND PERSONALLY? WHEN YOU MOVED, WHAT WERE YOUR PLANS WITH MUSIC?

When I moved 8 years ago, I had no music plans what-so-ever. I was doing some writing here and there but for the most part I was excited to have some time out of it. Kingston was an awesome experience, but it was exhausting. I’d been doing design throughout my music career, but the move gave me a chance to prioritize that career in a new country.

DO YOU GET HOMESICK FOR NEW ZEALAND?

Absolutely. We were lucky enough to come for a bit a few months back. Obviously missing family and friends has the most pull on the homesick vibes, but NZ is just special in so many ways - how could you not miss it!

WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU THINK WRITING MUSIC NOW MAKES, AS OPPOSED TO WHEN YOU WERE, SAY, 20? IS YOUR OUTLOOK DIFFERENT, AND HAS YOUR PERCEPTION OF WHAT REALLY MATTERS SHIFTED?

I think back then, we were just trying to write pop songs. Trying to crack something that would shoot us to the top or get us noticed in the US or something. It was super fun and I wouldn't change it. But now, writing music is just about having an outlet. I want to keep it as simple and enjoyable as possible. Basically, “there’s this thing I like doing and when I have the time I’m gonna do it. And I’m gonna do it for me.” I have a busy life - I have a job and a family, so And That is a creative space for me to do the band thing on my own terms.

DESCRIBE A FORMATIVE MOMENT IN YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU WERE COMPLETELY TRANSPORTED BY MUSIC, WHETHER PLAYING IT OR EXPERIENCING IT: WHAT IS A MOMENT YOU’LL NEVER FORGET?

Remember when Mumford and Sons came out and they were everyone's favorite band? Well, I was that asshole who wouldn't listen to them to try and maintain some sort of cool indie guy BS. Then one day I was working backstage at their show in Auckland and the crowd was SO loud. I thought I’d go see what the fuss was about. What I saw was every single person there, including the band, having the best night of their lives. The whole of vector arena, front to back, was a hoedown and I could not stop smiling. There was so much joy and energy it was infectious and unforgettable. Just a powerful moment and one of the best shows I’ve ever seen.

WHAT WERE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES AND HIGHLIGHTS IN CRAFTING THE ALBUM? DID IT FEEL DIFFERENT FROM MAKING YOUR DEBUT EP?

I really wondered if I could “do it again”. I surprised myself with the EP - I never thought I’d do my own thing - if I did, I didnt think it would sound any good - So looking to do a whole record was daunting. But I found with every song that came about, it built my confidence. It’s nearly like the challenges were the highlights. Being able to overcome my lack of self confidence and working hard to craft better songs were challenges that became highlights piece by piece as the album unfolded.

WHO DID YOU WORK WITH, AND HOW DID THIS IMPACT WHAT IT BECAME?

I worked with Zac Farro, same as with the EP. The EP was the first thing he’d produced, but he’d done a whole lot between that and starting “I Am The Mirror”. So he brought a bunch more he’d learnt that helped define what the record was gonna sound like. Zac is also a very encouraging and generous guy - A bit of a cheerleader for me doing this - I joke that there would be no ‘And That’ without him, but it’s true - His impact on this album is probably that it would all be dancing around in my head still if he hadn't pushed me to make it and pushed each song to be it’s best.

THE ALBUM IS REALLY TENDER AND HEARTWARMING. LET’S START WITH THE TITLE TRACK, “I AM THE MIRROR”, WHICH DEALS WITH YOUR STRUGGLE TO CONSIDER YOURSELF AS ‘THE CANDLE’ (BEING THE LIGHT) VERSUS BEING ‘A MIRROR’ (REFLECTING THE LIGHT). ARE YOU THE CANDLE TOO? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN ‘REFLECTING’ AND ‘BEING’ – IS IT EASIER OR MORE DESIRABLE TO BE ONE THAN THE OTHER?

I think everyone is both to different people in different seasons - But this song for me is about how I feel like a lot of people in my life look to me to be the light (the candle) when in reality I feel more like the mirror - “I am not the candle you think that I am. The light that you see is coming from you, man”. I think I’m afraid of the responsibility of being the light to people, and also know that although people may look like they have it all “together” on the outside, it’s not always the case. Maybe it is easier to be the mirror, but as long as you're spreading love and positivity it doesn't matter if you’re one or the other.

AS A BODY OF WORK, THE ALBUM COMES ACROSS AS REFLECTING A BEAUTIFUL WARMTH AND STABILITY, BUILT MAINLY AROUND YOUR FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS, AND ESPECIALLY CENTRED AROUND YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR WIFE. HAS THIS SENSE OF STABILITY ALWAYS BEEN THERE FOR YOU? HOW DOES SHE INSPIRE YOU?

I’ve been lucky to have a lot of stability in my life, especially looking at the relationships of my parents and grandparents. For Stephanie and I, I think we both feel like the “lucky one” - Like we’re the one who got the good deal. There’s a lot of stability in that and a lot of inspiration that comes when you feel that in love and that loved at the same time. Like, I’m not intentionally trying to write more songs about my wife and family - It just comes out, whether I want it to or not.

“FOR YOU” IS A SPECIAL LITTLE TRACK THAT MADE ME WANT TO KNOW THE BACK STORY TO HOW YOU AND YOUR WIFE MET, AND “DOESN’T MATTER” ONLY ADDED TO THE INTRIGUE! CAN YOU SATISFY THE ROMANTICS AMONG US AND FILL US IN ON YOUR ‘HOW-WE-MET’ STORY?

Stephanie and I met when I was in the US with Kingston way back in 2009. It was at a show in Hollywood and her friend had dragged her along to see the band. A week or so later we were playing in Vegas and she happened to be at a friends birthday there and we all hung out again. I know it sounds like some classic band/groupie story, but the honest truth is it was a very wholesome “courtship” involving 4 years long distance and a lot of trips across the pacific for us both before we got married in 2013. “Doesn’t Matter” is about a night at the Ace Hotel in Palm Springs early on where Stef told me she loved me and I think I just said “Thank You”. I knew I loved her but I was afraid to say it back just like I was afraid to uproot my whole life and move to the states. It’s a story that’s hard to live down, but hopefully this song makes up for it. Fun fact for the romantics is that this is both of our favorite song on the record.

I LOVE THE CONTRAST OF THE LULLABY-LIKE “SLEEP BABY SLEEP” BEING CHASED BY THE UP-TEMPO “COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS (12345)”, WITH ITS FINAL LINE ‘STEALING YOUR KISSES, SAYING GOODNIGHT / GOODNIGHT’ CLOSING OUT THE ALBUM: IT’S A NEAT JUXTAPOSITION SPEAKING BOTH OF THE EXCITEMENT OF HOMECOMING AND OF REST. WHAT IS NEXT FOR YOU?

What's funny is that I never realised until now how the end of “Count Your Blessings” ties back to “Sleep Baby Sleep” so thanks for pointing that out! What’s next? Not too sure to be honest. Shows are still up in the air over here, but I’m excited to get writing again!

Congratulations on an absolutely delightful gem of an album, Scott! We’re very excited to see where it all goes ☺

❄♒♋■🙵 ⮹□◆🖉🖉